Tuesday, July 19, 2005

Sleepless in Provo

I tried to go to bed at like 11 p.m. tonight, and after an hour of sleep, I woke up feeling completely alert again. Randy, I feel your pain. Tomorrow is going to be a long day. I can tell already. By nature, I am a night owl, but I can usually sleep through the night once I fall asleep. I don’t know what my deal is tonight.

Anyhow, I thought I’d respond to a few comments posted on my blog.

First off, take it easy on Utah. :) I really do love my state, even if it’s not New York. (I love New York as well.) I could be happy living here or anywhere – even if it’s not the best place to meet gay guys.

I agree that my sexuality isn’t a teeny part of my makeup, but neither is my religion. :) In fact, I’d argue that my religion is a bigger part of me. Anyhow, back to my sexuality ... honestly, I don’t think it defines who I am. It’s just a part of me – nothing more, nothing less. A few people commented that I am trying to hide “who I really am.” I disagree. I am much more than homosexual. I don’t feel that my personality would change were I to come out of the closet. I would still be the same person.

I do agree, however, that coming out would help me feel more comfortable when the topic of marriage or dating came up. That would be the main benefit of coming out. For right now, I’m okay with avoiding those topics. In my opinion, the pros of coming out don’t outweigh the cons at this point. Maybe down the road sometime ... especially if it might help me find a job in PR, advertising or marketing. Ha!


Though one reader keeps citing the Kinsey studies as hard facts, I think it would be fair to mention that Kinsey’s methods are highly disputed. The debate centers on his sampling methods. Many argue that he used a non-probability sample for his research, likely biasing his results. Moreover, most studies since that time report the actual homosexual population as much lower than 10 percent. It seems as though a mean of 4 percent or 5 percent has become the generally accepted proportion of homosexuals in the nation. Of course, sexuality is very difficult to measure in our society – especially considering its highly stigmatized nature – and it’s likely we will never know accurate stats on the issue.

Just thought I’d throw that in.

Kudos to the woman who has been living with her homosexual husband for six years. I would love to talk to that woman. I want to know more about their lives together. I’ve been dying to hear from a woman who is/was married to a gay Mormon. Ma’am, if you ever read this again, please comment on this blog. This Gay Mormon would REALLY appreciate that.

I must agree with Sophia. I don’t think that I need a cooperative friend to give me some gay physical lovin’. What I really need is a great relationship with a guy whom I love and who loves me in return. That’s what I need if I’m going to live as a homosexual. :) I don’t want to have sex with a guy just to help me get used to having sex with a guy. Ugh.

I appreciated Patmos’ caring comment. I believe he is sincere. I don’t think it’s fair to say that he has some ulterior motive, or that I shouldn’t trust him. Of course, I take a person’s biases into account when I consider his or her opinions; nonetheless, that doesn’t mean the person’s comments aren’t genuine. I believe in the inherent goodness of human beings (cheesy, I know), and I’d rather err on the side of trust. I work off the assumption that those who comment want the best for me. Perhaps I’m naïve. That’s okay. I’d rather be naïve than distrustful.

Moving on ... I agree that if I were to come out (when I come out is probably more accurate – I can’t keep this a secret forever), it would help many people see homosexuality in a different light. I’ve thought about telling people for that reason alone. I absolutely agree that it’s not my problem if they can’t handle the truth.

I do need to start getting support. I need a therapist, damn it. :) Sorry for the cuss word. It’s my guilty pleasure (that, and sleeping in).

Oh yeah, an update on the female friend (stated that way to avoid calling her a “girlfriend). She and I are just friends. I’ve changed my approach to the situation, and now it’s evident that I’m not pursuing a relationship. It probably confused her a bit, but that’s okay. It’s best for both of us.

I was sad to hear about one reader’s difficulties in her relationship with her gay Mormon boyfriend. So sorry that it caused her such trauma. That’s exactly what I don’t want to happen to any girl I date. Hence, the change to my approach with the female friend.

Okay, it’s late. Going to try to sleep again.



Anonymous Anonymous said...

The issue isn't whether Patmos is sincere. I doubt anyone questions his sincerity. It is whether he is helping you or unintentionally harming you. I mean, if doctors said you needed an operation and medicine to save your life, and a friend who was a devout Christian Scienticist said, "I care about you, and pray you'll have the strength to refuse the operation and the medicine and leave it to God's will," that friend might sincerely care for you, but might still be giving you harmful advice.

The longer you put off coming out, the harder it may be, the deeper the rut you will probably be in. A lot of us may think Patmos means well but harms you by urging you to lead a celibate life. You clearly don't want that. And the sooner you get into gear the better.

So you can't sleep. There can be a million reasons. But the Mormon church's teachings against masturbation and against gay sex mess up so many people. The sexual tension caused needlessly by avoiding masturbation and sex would be enough to make sleep harder. If you masturbated every night, you'd quite likely feel less uptight and sleep better. I couldn't sleep if I tried denying myself sex and masturbation.

For gay man, Utah is one of the worst environments because the Mormon church is so anti-gay. If you want to live there, fine. But it seems masochistist to live in an envirnonment so hostile to gays like yourself. Dn't you think you deserve better? New York isn't for eveybody. It may not be for you. But countless cities--Portland, Seattle, San Francisco, Boston, New orleans--are more tolerant and supportive than Utah. If you want to stay there, fine. But the odds of finding supportive friends, or of even finding a decent therapist, are lower there. If you want to punish yourself, Utah is good choice.

So what if some of Kinsey's findings are disputed? What does it matter, in terms of gay rights, or the decisions you must make to find hppiness, if the percentage of gay men is 5% or 10%? A lot of people who knocked Kinsey did so for ideological, not scientific, reasons. His most important findings--that sexuality exists on a contiuuum, that homosexual feelings and actions are not limited to people who identify themselves as homosexual, etc. etc.--are not in dispute any more. He may not have been a perfec statistician, but the broad trends he uncovered are accepted. Some accused him of surveying too many prison inmates. But the data has been rewroked excluding inmate interviews and the findings are virtually the same.

Kinsey's team did the largest number of in-person interviews on sex every done. None of the other surveys come close. Yes, more people admitted to socially disapproved feelings and atyions (like homosexulity, adultery, bestiality) in Kinsey's in-person interviews than in polls conducted by mail or phone. Is that surprising? Kinsey's researchers spent hours in each interview, and by establishing rapport with intervieees, got more admissions of socially unacceptable behavior than were obtaioned in mail or phone surveys. There are probalems with ALL surveys. But Kinsey's data, flawed as all sex research data may be, is still the most comprehensive of its kind. And Kinsey's most vocal critics often have an agenda. Beware of that.

You'll do what you want, at your own pace. Gay Mormon men often seem to come out later than Gay non-Mormon men. The church has done a lot of damage. And it can take years to deal with it. I hope you find a good therapist who can help you out of the trap the church has put you in.

12:07 PM  
Blogger Randy said...

You really do need to get yourself to a therapist. There are therapists who specialize in GLBT issues, and you can probably find one via google. Your head is going to explode pretty soon if you don't get into therapy.

12:44 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I understand dude, I can't sleep either! Too much on your mind. I totally understand and appreciate your commitment to the Gospel despite your own feelings. I don't think that at this time in your life being with a girl could give you any answers really, but have you ever considered that maybe you REALLY could be happy with a woman in every single way? Just because you are more attracted to man than women dosen't mean you can't ever be attracted to a women, or more importantly attracted and in love with a woman. I don't know what to tell my homosexual member friends, I tell my non-member friends to be happy, be honest, to try and have good relationships, don't hoe around stuff like that. Why do you think so many gay people man and woman alike hoe around so much? Just a question to post? My best friend and I are not talking like we used to, he and I are both hurting a lot I think. I don't understand how he it totally convinced to be done with the church and be Gay just because we broke up! It makes me feel like he expected me to save him and cause I didn't I have failed him and myself. Do you think there is anything I could have done to make him feel better about the situation? Take Care, Oh yeah I have the problem with masturbation, it really does cause you to not be able to sleep. I do not believe God wants his children to be celibate and many people in this world don't have partners of no fault of their own gay or straight so why wouldn't he want us to masturbate. I think the porn is because you long for a relationship and that is the only substitue you can find for it, ya know? I understand once again same problem, but oh yeah I am a woman so I guess it makes it even harder to admit, and I get off to different kinds of porn including two guys so like what does that mean about me? I don't feel the need to label myself anything?

11:02 PM  
Anonymous C. D. said...

Dear GM: Here is an article I enjoyed reading--an interview with a fellow who for a while was sort of a poster boy for the "ex-gay movement." He is now an ex member of that--happier leading a gay life. It's somewhat off-topic, butI found it interesting, and just wanted to share it. Here's the site:


11:34 PM  
Blogger Patmos said...

What I find interesting is I have not posted "spoken" in weeks and yet my name has not vanished.

For those that do not know, 3 years ago, at a very young age, I dropped dead of a heart attack. Come to find out, I have had this birth defect sense birth and should have died 18 years ago, I was told by many "christian" friends that I needed to just have faith and I would be ok, no surgery needed. I lost several friends because I let them cut me open, it was then they could do NOTHING for me and today I have this pretty scar and a life of heart trouble. That is just a comment concerning anonymous statement about needing surgery and me giving you harmful advice.

So that leads me to the point of asking.... Why is my advice harmful and your advice is right (un-harmful). Who has made the gay community the right vote, verses the hetrosexual community the wrong vote. Is it because there are more of the gay community that are vocal about their vote? Or is it seen that when the hetrosexual expresses his/her opinion we are known as them that hate the gay community.

I stopped posting because all it had become was me defending who I was and not about trying to help G.M. I like how you said the word unintentionally, as if I am ignorant.

G.M. You know that I care, you know that I pray for you a lot, and in case you are wondering, my prayer is.... "God give G.M. the ability to do what he knows is right". I do not ask of God to make you straight, I do not ask of God to make you run from the gay community, I do not ask of God to make you think less of gay people, just that you will know what to do.

I will end my comment with this.

In life G.M. we are surrounded by friends and people that love us and those that want their wishes for your life and others that just wish you would fail, so they don't seem so alone in life. It has been 16 years of full time ministry, it is a very lonely place, a place of always wondering, am I doing my best for the Kingdom of God, it is a life of always wondering if God is pleased. However none of that has anything to do with what I want to say. G.M. there comes a time in every mans life that he must make his decision and the most difficult thing about the decesion is the loneliness that it brings. I know and have known more people in the last 16 years than most people know in their 80 years of living, however when it comes the time to make that final decision it is loneliness that haunts you.

What am I saying?

Well when the time comes and you make that decision (either way) just know that when you come out of that place called decision you always have friends on either side of you.

Be Good G.M.

9:57 AM  
Blogger texaschick said...

Just wanted to say hi to GM. I also wanted to say that no one in this world can ever really understand 100% of another persons heart and soul. The only person that know us that close is the Savior. So really advice from others on either side of the issue ultimately means nothing. Don't follow others, follow only yourself! I can tell just by reading your post what an awesome dude you are, don't let anybody or anything change who you are. And Patmos I wish you would come on my blog and talk to me, I would be really interested in how you deal with being celibate? That is the one thing I am the MOST afraid about? See my blog, thanks take care

3:51 PM  
Anonymous Robert said...

GM--Have you considered seeing if Evergreen--made up of gay Mormons like you--can hel you find a decent therapist in your area?

4:04 PM  
Blogger texaschick said...

GM I WOULD BE VERY CAREFUL ABOUT JOINING EVERGREEN! I have had several friends have horrible results from visiting such organizations. I basically would just be very cautious about entering therapy that deals strickly with homosexuality. Therapy that is approached from a general standpoint can be good for the soul. I love therapy, it has helped me through so much. Do you really suffer from anything GM? Do you have symptoms of depression or anything like that? Why do you need a therapist?

8:00 AM  
Anonymous C. D. said...

Texaschick is right. Evergreen hjas a strong anti-gay bias. You'd have better luck, I think, contacting ffirmation to see if they could recommnd a decent therapist, if you want help in sorting out issues and moving forward with your life.

2:35 PM  

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