Lucky
I really am lucky. I can’t deny it. This blog has become more than I could have ever hoped for. When I first began blogging, I didn’t think anyone would ever come across it. After all, how many people google the words “gay mormon”? Quite frankly, I don’t even understand how my 1,566 visitors succeeded in finding this little corner of the Web. I always wonder how people come across it. Back to my point ... yes, I feel very fortunate that via this blog I’ve been able to share my situation with and receive feedback from wonderful readers like yourself. Andy, I wish that the Internet would have been around back in the day. It really has been so helpful to me.
Speaking to Andy’s comments, I must agree that for me the Church is very much a safe haven, a secure environment for me. However, I have never seen people outside the Church as bad or evil. My parents taught me that Mormons are just as sinful – if not more sinful – than other people. Our religion does not make us better than other people. Stepping outside the religion would be difficult simply from a cultural point of view. My beliefs, values and practices are just different from other people’s.
Hearing that your mother basically abandoned you when you share your struggle with her made my heart ache for you. What a tragic reaction. I don’t think my mother would react that way, but who knows. She is a very devout Mormon – bless her soul. She just might not be able to cope.
By the way, I believe many parents incorrectly assess a child’s homosexual issues as a “minor” problem and expect it to go away if the child simply ignores it for a while. My dad honestly believes it’s something I can get rid of in just a month or two. He’s told me on many occasions that I just need to exercise faith, pray, and repent, and I will overcome my unnatural same-sex attraction. He tells me to find a secluded place and pray for a day or two on end – I’m not joking. He believes that if I were to have a sincere, day-long prayer, God would heal and forgive me like he did Enos in the Book of Mormon. This mentality is very frustrating to me. Though I truly believe in the concept of faith and miracles, I struggle to believe that God will just heal me over night. I doubt this because I’ve pleaded for the past eight years for such healing, but it hasn’t happened. Perhaps I just lack faith – well, that goes without saying. In any case, I’ve accepted that if God wants me to “overcome” my homosexuality, it will be on his timetable, not mine. I believe it will be a process, not an event.
It is truly sad that your mother felt she had to choose between you and the Church. It’s even sadder that she chose the Church. I’m so sorry. I would be devastated were that to happen to me.
Yes, Bill is a wonderful person, one who only wants me to be happy. Thanks again Bill for being so wonderful. Even other readers recognize your wisdom, love and true concern.
You said I am deceiving people living the way I am. I’ve thought a lot about that comment, and I can see your point. I don’t advertise my sexuality. I go on dates with girls. I talk about marriage. Nonetheless, it’s not a blatant deception. I don’t tell people I’m straight. But I don’t tell them I’m gay. For the record, I don’t kiss girls. I haven’t kissed one for more than five years. I really try to be as real as possible. For example, when I talk about the type of person I am attracted to, I never specify gender. Or when I talk about marriage, I always say that I don’t know if I’ll ever be able to get married.
Maybe I should just come out with my sexuality; however, I just can’t justify that sort of action at this point in my life. Andy, thanks for sharing your situation. I appreciate your concern for me. I can tell that you simply want me to find a way to reconcile my beliefs with my sexuality. Thanks.
Texas Chick:
You’re great! Yours was a very unique posting to my blog! I can’t tell you how nice it was to see things from the perspective of a girl who’s dating a homosexual man right now. I’ll be honest: I don’t know how you could not believe in sexuality. Please share your thoughts sometime, if you get a chance. I am just really curious about your comment: “I personally don't believe in being gay or straight.”
I agree with you 100 percent! I don’t think it’s anybody’s right to tell you whether your relationship is real or not. I find it ironic that many so-called “open-minded people” are not open to the idea of a homosexual man having a loving relationship with a woman. If two people are happy living that way, then others should be equally happy for them – if they are truly open-minded, that is.
Great advice, by the way. I will only date women if I want to. I know I have been on one too many charity dates in my life, and it’s probably time I draw the line.
Our struggles are not so different. We both doubt others could love us for who we are – you, overweight; me, homosexual. It’s kind of funny how similar our situations really are.
Why is it that we are all seeking love in this life? What is so great or essential about finding someone to love and be loved by? I wish I were more like a machine ... just work, no emotions. Just kidding. :)
Women who look at gay porn ... interesting. I guess it’s the same thing as straight guys who look at lesbian porn. I’ve just never heard of it. Good to know porn is not just a male issue.
Okay, I’ve got a ton of thoughts floating through my head, but no time to put them into words right now. Unfortunately, things are just going to get worse with my return to school. I hope to get a blog posted at least once a week while back in school.
Speaking to Andy’s comments, I must agree that for me the Church is very much a safe haven, a secure environment for me. However, I have never seen people outside the Church as bad or evil. My parents taught me that Mormons are just as sinful – if not more sinful – than other people. Our religion does not make us better than other people. Stepping outside the religion would be difficult simply from a cultural point of view. My beliefs, values and practices are just different from other people’s.
Hearing that your mother basically abandoned you when you share your struggle with her made my heart ache for you. What a tragic reaction. I don’t think my mother would react that way, but who knows. She is a very devout Mormon – bless her soul. She just might not be able to cope.
By the way, I believe many parents incorrectly assess a child’s homosexual issues as a “minor” problem and expect it to go away if the child simply ignores it for a while. My dad honestly believes it’s something I can get rid of in just a month or two. He’s told me on many occasions that I just need to exercise faith, pray, and repent, and I will overcome my unnatural same-sex attraction. He tells me to find a secluded place and pray for a day or two on end – I’m not joking. He believes that if I were to have a sincere, day-long prayer, God would heal and forgive me like he did Enos in the Book of Mormon. This mentality is very frustrating to me. Though I truly believe in the concept of faith and miracles, I struggle to believe that God will just heal me over night. I doubt this because I’ve pleaded for the past eight years for such healing, but it hasn’t happened. Perhaps I just lack faith – well, that goes without saying. In any case, I’ve accepted that if God wants me to “overcome” my homosexuality, it will be on his timetable, not mine. I believe it will be a process, not an event.
It is truly sad that your mother felt she had to choose between you and the Church. It’s even sadder that she chose the Church. I’m so sorry. I would be devastated were that to happen to me.
Yes, Bill is a wonderful person, one who only wants me to be happy. Thanks again Bill for being so wonderful. Even other readers recognize your wisdom, love and true concern.
You said I am deceiving people living the way I am. I’ve thought a lot about that comment, and I can see your point. I don’t advertise my sexuality. I go on dates with girls. I talk about marriage. Nonetheless, it’s not a blatant deception. I don’t tell people I’m straight. But I don’t tell them I’m gay. For the record, I don’t kiss girls. I haven’t kissed one for more than five years. I really try to be as real as possible. For example, when I talk about the type of person I am attracted to, I never specify gender. Or when I talk about marriage, I always say that I don’t know if I’ll ever be able to get married.
Maybe I should just come out with my sexuality; however, I just can’t justify that sort of action at this point in my life. Andy, thanks for sharing your situation. I appreciate your concern for me. I can tell that you simply want me to find a way to reconcile my beliefs with my sexuality. Thanks.
Texas Chick:
You’re great! Yours was a very unique posting to my blog! I can’t tell you how nice it was to see things from the perspective of a girl who’s dating a homosexual man right now. I’ll be honest: I don’t know how you could not believe in sexuality. Please share your thoughts sometime, if you get a chance. I am just really curious about your comment: “I personally don't believe in being gay or straight.”
I agree with you 100 percent! I don’t think it’s anybody’s right to tell you whether your relationship is real or not. I find it ironic that many so-called “open-minded people” are not open to the idea of a homosexual man having a loving relationship with a woman. If two people are happy living that way, then others should be equally happy for them – if they are truly open-minded, that is.
Great advice, by the way. I will only date women if I want to. I know I have been on one too many charity dates in my life, and it’s probably time I draw the line.
Our struggles are not so different. We both doubt others could love us for who we are – you, overweight; me, homosexual. It’s kind of funny how similar our situations really are.
Why is it that we are all seeking love in this life? What is so great or essential about finding someone to love and be loved by? I wish I were more like a machine ... just work, no emotions. Just kidding. :)
Women who look at gay porn ... interesting. I guess it’s the same thing as straight guys who look at lesbian porn. I’ve just never heard of it. Good to know porn is not just a male issue.
Okay, I’ve got a ton of thoughts floating through my head, but no time to put them into words right now. Unfortunately, things are just going to get worse with my return to school. I hope to get a blog posted at least once a week while back in school.
posted by Gay Mormon at 11:08 PM
22 Comments:
Dear Gay Male: You are lucky to be in New York right now, rather than in Utah. It is easier to meet good, decent caring, openly gay friends in New York than in Utah. It is also to easier to find an excellent therapist if you want help in working things out. Ask yourself where you want to be 10 years from now, or 20 years from now. Do you want to fall in love with someone? Do you want intimacy with anther person who knows you, accepts you, loves you? If you want that, you have to come out. Friends can help, a good therapist can help. You have not kissed a gal in five years. Obviously you have little interest in that direction. That will not change. You fantasize about guys. Obviously that is your orientation. That will not change. You need to live the life you dream of, with a guy, or you'll never fall in love, and you'll never know intimicy. Right now you are extremely closeted. When your Dad sees that your computer was logged onto gay porn sites, you lie and tell him it was your roommate. (I understand that; did the same when I wasyounger.) You mislead him. He probably know you're lieing. (When I told my Dad, fnally that it was me, not friends looking at the porn, he said of course he knew that; just as he knew the pot my brother claimed he was "just holding for a friend" was his. Parents often can tell when their kids are lieing, but may choose not to mbarrass their kids by calling them on it every time.) It's better to be can honest gay son than a dishonest one. Own up to it, or tell him it's none of his business, or quit the Covenant Eyes service. But belonging to Covenant Eyes and then lieing when your Dad gets the reports its pointless. It hurts your character. When friends ask who you're attracted to , and you answer without specifying a gender, you are trying to mislead them about who you are. You are ashamed, and don't want them to know. So you're not honest with them. You are more honest vwith the c1500 strangers ho read this blog than the people in your real life, it seems like. That has to change. Believe me, you will be happier when you can live honestly, openly, among friends who accept you as you are. If you never come out of the closet and stay where you are, you will become a plastic Mornon man, a phony hoping others will perceive him as straight. It doesn't work. Nor does marrying a woman. If you're noot even interested in kissing gals, you can't fulfill the reasonable sexual, emotional needs of a gal. But lieing to others and to yourself (or kidding yourself in a very BillClinton-esque way that you're not "blatantly" lieing) is damaging to yourself. It becomes a patern of dealing with people. If you have gay friends who accept you, hang with them. Eventually all of the significant people in your life need to know you as who you are. Or you'll live a very lonely, troubled life. There are riks in opening up to people. Some friemnds will desret you--but they were never real friends. nd you will be better off finding other friends who want to know and befriend the real you. Come on out! It's not so scary as you think. The gay community center can help you find a good therapist.
Dear Gay Male: You are lucky to be in New York right now, rather than in Utah. It is easier to meet good, decent caring, openly gay friends in New York than in Utah. It is also to easier to find an excellent therapist if you want help in working things out. Ask yourself where you want to be 10 years from now, or 20 years from now. Do you want to fall in love with someone? Do you want intimacy with anther person who knows you, accepts you, loves you? If you want that, you have to come out. Friends can help, a good therapist can help. You have not kissed a gal in five years. Obviously you have little interest in that direction. That will not change. You fantasize about guys. Obviously that is your orientation. That will not change. You need to live the life you dream of, with a guy, or you'll never fall in love, and you'll never know intimicy. Right now you are extremely closeted. When your Dad sees that your computer was logged onto gay porn sites, you lie and tell him it was your roommate. (I understand that; did the same when I wasyounger.) You mislead him. He probably know you're lieing. (When I told my Dad, fnally that it was me, not friends looking at the porn, he said of course he knew that; just as he knew the pot my brother claimed he was "just holding for a friend" was his. Parents often can tell when their kids are lieing, but may choose not to mbarrass their kids by calling them on it every time.) It's better to be can honest gay son than a dishonest one. Own up to it, or tell him it's none of his business, or quit the Covenant Eyes service. But belonging to Covenant Eyes and then lieing when your Dad gets the reports its pointless. It hurts your character. When friends ask who you're attracted to , and you answer without specifying a gender, you are trying to mislead them about who you are. You are ashamed, and don't want them to know. So you're not honest with them. You are more honest vwith the c1500 strangers ho read this blog than the people in your real life, it seems like. That has to change. Believe me, you will be happier when you can live honestly, openly, among friends who accept you as you are. If you never come out of the closet and stay where you are, you will become a plastic Mornon man, a phony hoping others will perceive him as straight. It doesn't work. Nor does marrying a woman. If you're noot even interested in kissing gals, you can't fulfill the reasonable sexual, emotional needs of a gal. But lieing to others and to yourself (or kidding yourself in a very BillClinton-esque way that you're not "blatantly" lieing) is damaging to yourself. It becomes a patern of dealing with people. If you have gay friends who accept you, hang with them. Eventually all of the significant people in your life need to know you as who you are. Or you'll live a very lonely, troubled life. There are riks in opening up to people. Some friemnds will desret you--but they were never real friends. nd you will be better off finding other friends who want to know and befriend the real you. Come on out! It's not so scary as you think. The gay community center can help you find a good therapist.
Before I came out, I was close friends with a gal I knew from college. We loved hanging out, going to movies, plays. We were inseperable. I half-jokingly said we were such tight friends, we should eventually get married. She told me that she was a lesbian--and she also suspected I was gay but didn't know it yet. I insisted I was not gay, said I cared for her deeply (which was true), and I asked what a girlfriend could do that I couldn't do. She said her girlfriend could kiss her breasts for an hour "with enthusiasm!"--and could perform oral sex till they weree both satisfied without being asked--two things she said a her past boyfriends could never have done. And two things I could never have done. It was her saying "witb enthusiasm."
that told me something important. Even if I could have dutifully made myself kiss her breasts for a solid hours, it would hardly have ever been "with enthusiasm." And she said that those moments gave her the energy I liked so much--her joy for living.
Switching recollections... Later, when I was in Med School, we were shown porn films as part of one class (a number of Med Schools show students some porn, to help you understand human sexuality better, and help mke you more comfortable in talking with future patenients who may be gay, straight, bisexual). The films helped me understand who I was better.
The first times I went out with guys I was EVEY bit as uncomfortable as you are. I was also socially kind of immature, almost retarded, because at 25 I had never seriously dated anyone of either sex. And the college boys I thought were cute had been meeting boyfriends at gay clubs when they were 18. An older gay friend who was very bright (Harvard educatred) gave me my first sexual experience. Afterwards I told him, "I will never do this again." (Famous last words.) He laughed and said, "That's fine, of course. No one's gonna make you do anythimg you don't want to do." And a long time paassed before I had the never to try a second encounter with him. But he's a good friend to this day. If you have gay frends who want to help you, i'm sure they'll introduce yo9u to more, and expand your world at the pace you pick. But you have to jump in the pool! You can't spend life just watching the guys on the street, in the theater, in church. You have to step out a bit. The "night out" you wrote about--even though it was uncomfortable--is a ood step forward. And you'll look back upon it as such.
First of all, to Patmos,
I was troubled by your terrible experience and I meant to respond right away to that. Sexual and emotional abuse should not be tolerated regardless of the circumstance, whether gay or straight. I HATE the fact that these men took advantage of you, but I have to say I don't believe it was even sexual to them. It was a power and domination thing.
I really am sorry!
I would say that most gay men are not like this, in fact my experience has shown that most gay men are sensitive, caring, and sincerely interested in social equal rights for anyone regardless of sexual orientation.
I loved the previous post by anonymous and his coming out story. My first time at a gay bar was also very ackward, but very soon after I began to feel like I was finally HOME and my ability to share with people who understood my feelings was very comforting.
I also don't think we as Mormons should be so pompous as to think our circumstance is so unique. Over the past 15 years, I have met several men who were in the seminary to become Catholic Priests. Their stories are as troubling to them as our stories are. I have also met many men who had been married to women. Can you imagine their torment as they plan to move on with their lives often alienating their own children. We do not have the market on torment and internal strife.
I also would like you to resolve this soon. I would hate to be reading this same blog in another 6 months with no movement on your behalf. I would love to start reading about growth and movement in your life. Once you remove this noose from around your neck, you will be content and can begin to deal with your career, relationships, etc.
I believe you have much to offer others and would love to see you directing your talents appropriately in an honest and forthright way.
I also agree with anonymous about finding therapy through the gay and lesbian center. You owe it to yourself. I know you mentioned that cost is the inhibitor for you to engage in therapy. You cannot afford not to go down this path. I believe this should be your highest priority right now. We all think we have the answers for you... but you do need help and you should NOT try to resolve this with our experiences!
I know you love the attention you are getting from this blog, but is it really helping you resolve this? I am not convinced! Again, I am afraid this blog will be here in another year. The only thing difference is the contributors will change because most of us will tire with your inaction. Sorry for being so blunt.
You have been given overwhelming support from those who have been through this... I am not sure you really want resolution.
Scott
GM, If your financial resources are tight, you can find therapists who work on a sliding scale; there are some very good therapists who will charge low rates to those who aren't so well off, and will make it up elsewhere. When I was coming out, I got the number of the gay hotline (many cities have them--check information in your area), and asked the person on the phone if they had any idea how I could find an affordable, supportive therapist. I checked out several before finding one I felt good about seeing; he helped a lot. But saying "I can't afford therapy" is often an excuse; if you look, you might find good therapists you CAN afford. Or ask your gay friends for recommendations. Someone might be able to recommend a counselir or therapist who's helped them.
If you try to learn horseback-riding, you will inevitably suffer some falls, get some scrapes and bruises; it's all part of the process of learning to ride. And the wise instructor will tell you at once, after you've fallen, "Get back on the horse!" Don't think about, don't mull how bad you feel--just get back and try again. So you felt awkward being with someone who knows you're gay. Gwet back on the horse. Go out again, get used to it. There are plenty of happy, fulflled, good, kind, caring gay people out there; meet them. You should be having orgasms daily!
Your profile says to ask questions so here you go.
Before joining the church, I had many gay friends and roommates. I am straight. I know a woman in the church who was preparing to be a minister with mcc. She believed so strongly in the church that she left mcc and her lesbianism behind. It hasn't been easy for her. But it would be a lot harder if she did things like hang out with former her gay/lesbian circles.
We all feel compelled and drawn towards things. What you have to ask yourself is, are you an Affirmation mormon or an Evergreen mormon? One wants to believe that whatever you feel is justified, despite God's admonishment to the contrary. The other believes that commandments trump human feelings - be they feelings brought on by actions or genetics. In either case, so long as you continue to dwell on your homosexual feelings they will be forever intense.
Many will tell you these feelings can't be overcome. If that was true then all laws - both God's and man's would be pointless because we simply couldn't obey them. You have to determine what is more important to you. I don't believe you can be both actively gay and actively Mormon (or any type of Christian for that matter). I love my gay friends. But I don't pretend for a minute that lifestyle is favorable to God - no more than being unchaste and straight is. There's plenty of scriptures that condemn both.
Dear GM: One of the anonymous posters wrote: "Many will tell you these feelings can't be overcome. If that was true then all laws - both God's and man's would be pointless because we simply couldn't obey them." That is a totally illogical statement. Saying we can't change our sexual orientation hardly implies that we cannot follow any laws. And religions, overtime, change laws a lot. I mean, there are laws in the Old Testament that--although they had relevance when first written--are no longer followed by anyone, Christians or Jews. Times change, we can more light. New insights emerge. The largest sect of Judaism in the US, which once was anti-gay, now even officially permits gay Rabbai's. That change has occurred in our lifetime. If you think the Law of Chastity makes sense for you, if you want to spend your whole life with no sexual release (no masturbation, to sexual partner), you can make that choice. But your sexual feelings--your yearnings for closeness with men--aren't going to go away. And if you marry a woman, your desires for men will probably feel even stronger. It's your choice, whatever you want. You know what, deep down, you really want.
It is not fair to say that a person cannot be both Christian and gay. The Bible is open to interpretation and you must consider the time and circumstances under which it was written. The same book that condemns homosexuality forbids the eating of shell fish, but you don't see the Christian Right trying to shut down Red Lobster. All of my life I have known Christians who were pretty convinced the Mormon Church is a cult and that the Jews killed Christ. These people feel pretty certain about their place in heaven and they feel justified in their position by what they believe the Scriptures says. I believe that churches are a human construction and therefore quite flawed. Therefore, churches should be able to change as they become more enlightened. The entire polygamy issue within the Mormon Church is a prime example.
I find Patmos' comments not only repetitive, but more than a little disingenuous and manipulative. He asks, what is the rush, what is the urgency, as if he were only counseling taking things slowly, when his real goal is to deny GM a sex life and a love life altogether. Which seems a little mean, a little selfish. Patmos goes on about how he loves sex,how he thanks God before, after and sometimes during his sexual encounters with his wife of 11 years. He has sex with the partner of his choice. But he wants to deny that satisfaction to GM? GM, not to make a decision is to make a decision. Do you want to remain celibate all your life? The older you are when you come out, the harder it will be and the more difficult it will be to attract the type of partner or partners you want. With each year, your looks will fade a little, and you will be more in the habit of being isolated from people. Some people get so deep into the closet they can never come out. They live like automatons, doing their job, going to church, having only superficial acquantances with people they hope will perceive them as heterosexual (while masturbating/fantasizing about the guys they really want). But they live lives devoid of real closemess to any person, devoid of affection, devoid of love. Patmos loves--and is grateful for--his straight sexual experiences. I feel the same way about my gay sexual experiences. Just exchanging affection--even a kiss on the cheek each day--gives the day added vibrancy and beauty.
The other blogger who claimed to have a friend who was a lesbian but is now happier having supposedly put that behind her in the LDS church does not really know if his friend is really happier, or how long she will be able to stay on this path. Homosexuals trying to maintain heterosexual lives are sometimes maintaing a brittle, tenuous grasp on something that is not natural for them. There are no long-term studies showing that most people can change sexual preferences. Your friend may be telling you what you want to hear right now. The fact that she feels a need to avoid contact with her lesbian friends is itself revealing--as if the desires remain so strong she thinks that even being around friends might prompt her to go back. The extremes some people will go to, in order to deny their true natures, is amazing. GM, you will decide what you want. But you are here because you life, at present, is not working ver well. And you know something has to change. Patmos seems obsessed with the thought that you remain celibate. When he was ready to marry his current wife, if someone had been urging HIM to remain celibrate instead, and had askled him, "Why are you rushing to marry? Why don't you wait (indefinitely)?" he would have told the meddling old biddy to butt out. And if he has no new comments to add, just repetition of what he's already said over and over, he should butt out himself. And fnd something more to do with his life than to work on denying you a chance for happiness, and sexual/emotional fulfiillment. The longer you wait to solve the problem you have, the more years you've lost, living in isolation. Do you want a whole life of loneliness and isolation?
Patmos: What you have written fromn the start is rude and offensive to gays. You wrote, for example: "I could have been living a gay lifestyle, yet I chose different. I could have been a drug addict, but I chose different. I could have been a thief, but I chose different." Obviously, you are associating being gay with being a drug addict or a thief; to even put the notions in the same breath reveals how you think of homosexuality, and it is offensive. To say you mean no offense by such words is unconvincing; it is just passive aggression, and anyone can see through it. It is good that you have satisfying sexual experiences ith your wife. You tell us you were not a virgin when you married, that you're glad you "tasted the wine" of other partners first. Which makes it seem a littl hypocritical for you to keep counseling GM to avoid any sexual experiences himself. What is the point of rubbing it in the face of GM (who has no sex life) that you are appy with yours? But want him to have no sex life. I have no idea if GM will be happy wih what you call "the gay lifestyle" (a term, I find offensive, as if it is a "lifestyle"--something less than a life). What various posters--some annymous, some not--have suggested is that he take steps, baby-steos if need be, to find out what works for him. That's just common sense. It does not prejudge the outcome.
Wow....
I have to side with "anonymous" in this debate. As I re-read the original post from GM, I was amused by the comment:
"For the record, I don’t kiss girls. I haven’t kissed one for more than five years."
Come on.... GM, you are at your sexual peak. Your only release is porn and masturbation.... If you have not even kissed a girl for over 5 years... YOU ARE GAY!! There will be exhileration within you when you kiss a man. It will feel right.
Just as Patmos has the right to love whom he wants, so do we as gay men. My decision to love a man is one I will NEVER regret!
I found your blog today from another forum. I'm amazed that you keep up a blog called gaymormon and openly admit that you're going to BYU. Don't you worry about your bishop or the Honor Code office finding out? I only ask because I am also a BYU student with a secret, though it's a bit different than yours. You see, I am a non-believer. In the church, that is. I am a returned missionary, but I don't believe in any of the unique doctrines of the Mormon church. Sure, I believe in hard work, the golden rule, dedication to family, and all that--but obviously, none of those principles are the exclusive domain of LDS, Inc. I am a skeptic, a doubter, an intellectual, an apostate--whatever you prefer. I'm fascinated by the history and psychology of religion, but I personally do not believe in any gods, prophets, holy books, or an afterlife. I do believe that our lives have purpose, though it is we who create that purpose. I believe that morality (not just sexual morality, but ethics and behavior as a whole) is important. I spend most of my free time reading and pondering topics of philosophy, history, religion, and science. You could say I'm on a quest for truth, but I've come to realize that there are very few absolutes out there. Most of the time, on the really deep subjects, I just have to admit that I don't know, and probably never will.
It's a tough secret to keep sometimes. My choice of reading material certainly raises some eyebrows from time to time, though only my immediate family members and a few close friends know what I really think. Still, here I am at BYU, Mormon orthodoxy HQ. I keep the Honor Code, attend church meetings, and generally go through the motions. I certainly don't voice my opinions in church. I'm not out to (de)convert anyone. I'm concerned that my bishop or other powers that be would have a problem with an "atheist" occupying one of the coveted seats at BYU. Still, being a non-believer is probably not as socially unacceptable in Mormon culture as being homosexual. I can't imagine how uncomfortable that must be.
Perosonally, I don't think there is anything wrong with homosexuality. Hell, I'm sure there were plenty of gay missionaries that I never knew about. Having read through only a small portion of your blog, I do think it's unfortunate that you torment yourself so much over this issue. The church's stance on gays (along with most of the Religious Right) is wrong, and I think in the long run they'll realize it's untenable. They used to think blacks were "cursed" too, you know. I find it almost absurdly ironic that a church with a foundational history of non-traditional marriage (polygyny and polyandry) has set itself up as the poster child for "traditional families."
At any rate, I think you are doing the right thing, getting your feelings out in the open and dialoguing with others. I just hope you are very careful to keep personally identifying information to yourself. I would hate to see you face the full-on oppression inherent in Mormon culture against those who don't fit the norm. You have my sympathy. I know something about living a double life, and it's not easy. We all want to be the best we can be and create a happy future for ourselves. From my perspective, it's unfortunate that you feel so much conflict over desires I view to be as natural as the desire to eat. All things in moderation, of course, and if you personally feel like pornography or masturbation are adversely affecting your life, by all means restrain yourself. But I really think the church's all-or-nothing advice that we should pretend not to have sex drive is, well, screwed up. Why beat yourself up over something so trivial? I would be far more concerned about someone in his 20s who had no sexual outlet whatsoever.
Best of luck to you, however you decide to proceed.
Hey it's nice to see a gesture of Do you worry your Bishop will find out YOUR identity when you post? If it's a real worry, have you--or the Gay Mormon blogger--ever consideed transferring to another college. Just curious. I don't think they could find out the identity of you or the Gay Mormon blogger; but I'm no expert.
Patmos, it is good that you have someone in your life (your wife) with whom you can share sexual intimacy, emotional intimacy, a sense of sharing life's joys and hardships; those of us rooting for Gay Mormom to come out simply want him to have a chance to experience, with a partner suitable for him, the same rewards of life that you enjoy, and most of us (gay or straight) enjoy, or aspire to.
GM,
Have you read Carol Lynn Pearson's autobiography Good Bye, I love You? Both she and her daughter married gay husbands in the temple. You will find it worth your while.
Cheers, Hellmut
Patmos, none of us have forgotten what we went through in the coming-out process, which is why we're trying to help GM, if we can (if he wants it). It is good that you remember how you were conditioned to believe that all sex was wrong (the foundational beliefs you were raised with), but--if I understand you correctly-- you overcame such hangups, came to accept sexuality as normal, and found more fulfillment in life. But it sounds like you hve not questione your conditioning--the foundational beliefs you were raised with--regarding gay sex; you still just feel it is wrong, because you were raised that way. Like GM. Like many of us. But if he is to find fulfillment with partner, he--like you--will probably have to overcome some of his conditioning. If all of his fantasies and emotions are male-directed, he'll never find love with a woman. But can with a man. I just wish him as much happiness as it sounds like you have with your spouse.
I came across this blog via a link somewhere else. Anyhow, GM, best of luck with your issues. My advice would be to finish up at BYU, if you're near the end of your time there, then find yourself a man to share yourself with. Sexuality is not just about sex; it's also about sharing your hopes, your aspirations, your soul. The LDS Church doesn't seem to get that, but it's totally obsessed with sex, sex, sex. But I'm a rank apostate, so what do I know?
It's wonderful seeing so much activity on your blog, GM. People are offering you lots of good input on line, which you'll process at your own rate. I unederstand the appeal of putting your thoughts on a website and seeking counsel from anonymous strangers. So many of us have been through what you've been through, we can hopefully help. But ultimately I think you'll be better off--uncomfortable though it may be at first--talking these issues out, face to face, with real live gay friends. The next time you feel like getting together with the friend you mentioned in your last entry, don't go out and watch a show, stay in and talk. Cook a meal together a his home, or walk in a park. But talk, rather than watch a play or movie or concert. All the issues you raise here you can deal with better, if you engage in give-and-take with a real person. Just being accepted, in the flesh,as you relate these concerns can help. And when you re ready, if you want, you can try semsual--not sexual things--like massage--to help you get used to touching and being touched, and feeling comfortable in your own skin. But being with gay friends--where you don't have to lie or pretend--is a huge help. I remember that in the temple recommend interviews they'd ask, are you honest in your dealings with your fellow man. That's prime requirement. A big question. You can be honest with an understanding gay friend, mores than with people at work or college. I'm glad your friend offers you free theater vtickets (how come no one offers me free tickets?). But talking with a friend, getting a pat on the back or two, is more important right now than seeing shows. A good gay friend will want to help. I'm sure he knows you're uncomfortable. He's been there. So have I. If you ever need to discuss anything privately, we can do so by Email; just let me know. But starting with an actual gay friend in person will help you a lot more. The next meeting with him will be 10 times better than your date to see a show, I'm sure. Good luck.
well gaymormon, i just read your entire blog over the past few days. riveting stuff.
i would second the suggestion that you not be so candid until you graduate from the Y. you don't want to get in any kind of battle w/ the honor code office because you'll lose.
not much advice i can offer you since i'm a straight-leaning guy, but hang in there and don't beat yourself up too much. and if you can don't take the church stuff so seriously. it's just another church, and although it may seem like it offers something unique and beautiful, it's really not a healthy influence in your life right now.
and i'm not sure why you think you have a porn addiction. addiction is a strong word. more like you enjoy porn. addiction implies a compulsive overuse or dependency on something. if you can't function w/o porn then you're addicted, but if you merely like to look at it from time to time then that's all it is, a hobby. maybe an immoral hobby from the mormon POV, but not necessarily an addiction.
best of luck, i'll check in on you from time to time.
It does my heart good to see all the positive energy you're attracting. And to see all the widsom that the Mike's and Scot's are sharing. It makes me feel good about the world. You did good thing, creating this blog. Best of luck... C.D.
Hello GM. I just found your site for the first time today. I must say that I really enjoy reading it! I am an 18 year old lesbian mormon. Both my girlfriend and I are LDS and it gives me so much comfort knowing that we aren't alone out there. I cannot wait to share this site with her. Thank youi so much for being so open about your experiences, you really give a lot of young gay lds and non lds teens, I hope you realize what a good influence you have. Thank you so very much!!
-Elle
Dear GM: Here is some highly recommended reding for this summer. Order a copy of the book PECULIAR PEOPLE: MORMONS AND SAMESEX ATTRACTION. You can find used copies through Amazon for under $10. Here is the link, if you want to copy and paste it. But if the link doesn't work, just look it up on Amazon or at any bookstore.:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1560850469/qid=1119445603/sr=8-2/ref=pd_bbs_ur_2/103-4670926-7292630?v=glance&s=books&n=507846
That is a great place to start. You might also want to pick up a used paperback of "The Homosexual Matrix," one of the best all-around books on homosexuality--a classic in the field. By C. A. Tripp. It's easy to find ion libraries, too.
Not dealing with gay themes, but wrth reading for a better understanding of Mormon origins is Grant Palmer's "An Insider's Guide to Mormon Origins."
Anyway, those are some book recommendations for today. --C.D.
Post a Comment
<< Home