Sunday, July 24, 2005

Struggling Wife of a Gay Mormon

A woman posted the following comment to my blog last week. She wrote it in response to my “Gay Mormon + Heterosexual Woman ... Can it work?” post. I thought it was too good to let go unnoticed.

After you read it, I’d like to discuss it ...

“I have been married for 12 years this month, and my husband and best friend just told me a month ago that he is gay. It has devastated my world and I am so confused. At first I was in denial and then angry at him. I love him with all my heart. We have three beautiful children. He says he will not leave me and he loves me. I am so scared that he will not want to continue being married to me and he will turn to the homosexual lifestyle. He says that he does not want to live that lifestyle. I am so scared that I will not be loved and desired like I want to be. I know that sounds selfish. I pray constantly that God will give me peace. I am so anxious now when my husband goes to the gym and out with his buddies. I am having trouble trusting him. I want to so much and I want everything to be okay. We communicate great and have a wonderful friendship. I know that we have a better marriage than other couples I know. I know our marriage is deeper and is based on real love. I just wish that God will grant my husband with the desire for me like I have for him. I cry daily and I think I am depressed. I do not talk to anyone about this.”

My heart breaks reading this post!!! I want to reach out and hug this woman. I hope she returns to my blog someday. In case she does come back sometime, I’d like to say the following:

I honestly believe your husband loves you. Though he may be attracted to men, he obviously cares about you and your children and has no intention of leaving you. Besides hiding this from you, has he ever done anything to make you think you can’t trust him? If not, I’d say you need to learn to trust him once again.

Just out of curiosity ... What led to his telling you about his homosexuality? How did you react? Would you have still married him had you known this before you were wed? How has this information affected your current relationship?

I wish this woman the best. I would love to hear what she would have me do, considering I am a gay Mormon guy like her husband. Actually, she didn’t mention if she’s Mormon or not. I just assumed she was. Anyhow, I’d love to hear her advice to me. Hers is a rarely seen perspective on my blog.


Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yes, her husband cares for her. Yes, at this moment, he may have no conscious desire to separate. (It often feels easier and more comfortable to maintain the status quo.) But on some level I suspect she senses--and her instinct is probably correct--that his telling her he is gay is but the first step he is taking on a journey of coming out. And, whether he consciously knows it or not at this point, it probably is a prelude to their mrriage dissolving. He is talking about his deeply felt feelings now. He wants to act on them, if he has not already (which he may well have). And yes, she has a right to feel concern about him going off to the gym etc. with male buddies. My cousin figured out he was gay after many years of marriage. Although he initially thought he and his wife should remain a couple, in time he met a man he fell in love with. They now share a home and have a kid. (If gay marriage weere legal in their state I believe they'dmarry.) She has married a man who can really love her--I mean with the full degree of sexual interest she is entitled to. Everyone is probably better off. And she is on better terms with my cousin (her ex-husband), as a friend, now that he is sharing a home with a man he loves, than she was when he first came out to her. This woman shouild not be surprised if she and her gay husband eventually conclude they're better off with other partners than they are married. His telling her he is gay may well turn out to be the prelude to his eventually telling her he wants a partmer he is sexually attracted to. It is only natural for him to want such a partner. And for her. She is not "selfish" to want such a partner; she is human.

6:39 AM  
Anonymous Darcy Schack said...

You know there are people with very high moral standards and ethics. I am gay and married to a woman. Is it hard? You bet it is! We have been married 11 years and have a wonderful relationship we are great friends and although I am attracted to men I am much better off with my three children and family intact. Every person has a desire for something different. I have no intentions of leaving my family or my faith. It can work (and work well)! 11 GREAT years and counting!

10:42 AM  
Anonymous Scott said...

Even though I have been regularly checking the blog, you know how I feel on all these topics.

GM says... "After you read it, I’d like to discuss it" ...

What's to discuss???

I think this story is sad and there are many more like it in the church. It is NOT right for either one of them. Her husband has been very selfish.. I wish he had his act together before she fell in love with him! She was an unwilling participant in this charade... My heart truly goes out to her.

I think GM should not only question the gay issue he is dealing with but the larger issue of a church that fosters these anxieties and pains.

My current actions are leading me down this path.

There was an AP story today that Boyd Packard wants to have a council of 12 conference to deal with "nocturnal emmisions." seeing this as a back door to the masturbation problem.... What is up with this??? Give me a break!!!

I can't believe what I am hearing from the heirarchy of this church. I am quite troubled with this.

Sorry to vent here but....

3:21 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Darcy: You write that there are some people with "high moral stabdards and ethics," before noting that you are a gay man married to a woman. Are you implying that that you have high moral standards and ethics because you are married to a woman, but that a guy married to another guy does not? If so, I feel sorry that you have been brainwashed by the church into that kind of holier-thabn-thou attitude. It's smug and condescebding. If you are an ethical person, you wouldf behavecethically whether married to a woman or a man. I think it is sad that the church has convinced you that you are better off being marred to a woman who is your "friend" rather than a man to whom you could feel maximum attraction, besides being friends. You'rre missing out, amd rationalizing that we all want things we can't jave. For something as crucial as picking a life partner, it is crazy to not folow your heart. The Mormon church (and other fundamentalist churches and preachers) hurts gay people by making them live lies, rather than being true to their nature.

10:30 PM  
Blogger Gay Mormon said...


I searched the AP wire, Google News and Yahoo News for the Packer "nocturnal emissions" story. I couldn't find it anywhere. Could you post the link to the article sometime. I'd love to see what his intentions are with this possible meeting.

Gay Mormon

12:17 AM  
Anonymous Scott said...

Even though I was told of that AP article, I couldn't find it either... so it is probably not true... I think a friend was just "mess'n" with me. Sorry.

4:33 AM  
Anonymous Robert said...

Dear GM: Do you ever read the FAIR website (a pro-LDS site, run by LDS apologists). Currently, a fellow who posts regularly at that site has cofessed publically to all who read the site (just as you have confessed here,to all who rea this site) that he masturbates. It makes me sad the LDS Church messes people up so muuch that they feel guilty (and thus a need to confess) because they do something as natural as masturbate. I mean, most guys do it. Most guys don't feel guilty about it, or feel any need to confess it or worry about it. It just looks so silly to me, guys worrying about masturbating.

If I read your blog correctly, I gather you are in your mid 20s. You've never had sex with anyone. You've never fallen in love. It saddens me that the LDS Church has made you so repressed. Squelching yur feelings for years can be hard to revrse. If you are ever to fall in love with anyone in your life, it will be with a guy. But you are in such a habit of burying your feelings, and fighting them, a lotn of emotion is being suppressed. If you don't take real steps to change (whether working with a good therapist or making so good gay friendships and trusting in the friends) your life will always be as frustrating as it is today. And you'll never have a chance to be all whom you can be.

8:05 PM  
Anonymous Darcy Schack said...

Dear Anonymous Let me set one thing straight, I do not hide who I am from anyone I use my real name (unlike you). Second and listen real close IF YOU MAKE A COMMITMENT THEN STICK WITH IT!!!!!! I do have high moral standards because I have chosen to be married and KEEP THE COMMITMENT! I used to be in same sex relationships and have consumed more drugs than most people can even fathom. I went through drug rehabilitation and have been to hell and back at least twice. It is sad that you can not understand any of this. You attack before realizing that the comments that I am making are not against same sex couples but instead about honoring our committments that we have made with others. If you make a commitment then it is honorable to live up to the things that we have promised.... church or no church! I am vice President of a Gay and Lesbian Association, and yes am quite active in the Church! Do not preach the usual rhetoric to me. I have heard it many times but in the end I am still GAY!!!!!!!!!!!! (I hope that the punctuation make a point to you) I do not pretend to be perfect but will HONOR my Commitments. Being honest and honorable gives me high moral standards. I feel sorry that your mind is so closed! Oh by the way I am very happy being married to a woman and very happy being in the Church (both of which require commitment)

3:23 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dear Darcy: You miss the point. Your attitude still sounds "holier than thou." Do you imagine that you are somehow more moral, more ethical than others because you are in a relationship with someoe of the opposite sex rather than someone of the same sex? Do you think that if you had made that same commitment to a member of your own sex (rather than someone of the opposite sex) you would somehow be a less moral, less ethical person? Do you think that GM would behave less ethically (and if so, how?) if he were to choose to marry (or commit to) someone of his own sex, rather than someone of the opposite sex? Do you think that gay couples who marry and raise kids are, somehow, less ethical eople than thse in heteroasexual relationships? That is the propaganda put forth by the Church. I want to sure I understand you correctly When you say that some of us have high moral and ethical standards, I know you think that applies to you. Do you think that gay couples do not, simply because they are gay? If so, that seems only like mindless bigotry. If your point is that you--like many gay people in same-sex rlationships--have high moral and ethical standards, you haven't made that. Some of the most judgmenta people I've met--taking the attitude that I am an ethical person but you are not (simply because one's sexual orientation is different)--were raised LDS. The culture makes a lot of people act like theyre superior to others. If you choose to commit to a woman (though you are gay), of course I respect your choice. But that does not make you any more moral, does not make you behave any more ethcally, than a gay man who's committed himse;f to his partner of the same sex.

4:44 PM  
Blogger texaschick said...

Darcy how can someone like you who is so accepting and identified as being Gay also be married to a woman. As a woman who has dated, been in love with, and hurt in relationships with Gay man how can this possibly work? I am not saying it can not, I am just thinking how does your wife deal with that? If you are Gay than by definition(correct me please if I am wrong) does that not mean that you are MORE attracted to man than women, that you would be MORE fully satisfied in a relationship with someone who is of the same sex. Please help me to understand your viewpoint because it is very interesting to me because of my life experience. I also am a member of the church but a strong advocate for Gay and Lesbian rights, sometimes I feel in total conflict supporting both, I am often confused, I am very liberal and open minded and have problems with the fundamentalist attitudes of the church, although I try and deal with it, how do you cope??? Please respond to me on my blog or here, my blog is crazy mormon girl, thanks!

6:15 PM  
Anonymous C. D. said...

I think the Mormon Church harms both its straight members and its gay members by its anti-homosexual positions. Some of the straight members become very homophobic. (An extreme example--the Mormon youths who killed Matthew Shepard.) Some of the gay members internalize that church-encouraged homophobia, and become self-destructive (this can manifest itself in all kinds of ways, from abusing drugs and alcohol to engaging in risky sexual behavior, to seeking partners who are abusive, as a way of punishing oneself). The very act of tithing, for a gay member of the Church, can lower self-respect; you are contributing money to an institution that disrespects you, puts you down, and uses some of that money to oppose gay rights legislation. For a gay man to contrbute to a church that opposes gay rights as vigorously as the LDS church does is wrong; it's actng against one's interests. (If I can exaggerate to make a point, it's something like a black person donating funds to the KKK.) There are other churches you can join or support, other charities you can donate to. People are, in general, not only happier if they are sexually fulfilled, they tend to be nicer, kinder, more productive; they have more to give to others. People who are sexually frustrated tend to be more prone to making bitchy, smartass remarks, or venting anger; they may have more anger problems, whose origin they don't necessarily understand. They are taking out their sexual frustrations on others. I think the Mormon Church hurts its gay members who try to follow the church's policies (the Law of Chastity). And it hurts single straight members with no sexual outlets, who are also prone to similar problems. Not having any sex, and not masturbating--as the church would have its gay members do--leads to problems, physically and emotionally. It makes people more tense, uptight, irritible, quick to anger. The late jazz/pop singer Dakota Staton had a record, "Sex is A Misdemeanor" in which she sang of sex, "The more you miss, the meaner you get." There's truth in that. I understand people wanting to keep commitments. But if they've been asked by the chuch to make a lifelong commitment that is harmful to themselves, they have a right to reconsider and opt out.

8:17 PM  
Anonymous Darcy Schack said...

--Anonymous-- read my last post again, I am afraid it is you who misses the point! I am not going to go over something that I have already covered.

My wife has accepted that I am gay entirely. I make sure to always be very thoughtful of her emotions, let her know that she is loved and be open and honest with her. I am attracted to men and I have been in relationships with men and women. I would not identify myself as bisexual, rather gay. My wife is an incredible woman she is very intelligent and compassionate. I do not know if I could be happier in a relationship with a man. I have given it some thought and realized that I have over a decade with my wife. I have given my wife my word that I would love and honor her and I will do that to the best of my ability. I made the choice to marry her, as she did me. We have three kids and I love them all very deeply. I know of the feeling of conflict in supporting both the Church and Gay & Lesbian organizations, I used to feel that alot. I am in the process of starting a 24 hour gay support line right now and have no issues in starting it. Everyone in the Church knows my sexuality in its entirety. I hold nothing back. I wear gay pride pins on every piece of clothing that I own and wear it as a beacon to other gay people that are having struggles. It was hard to cope in the beginning but it is getting a lot easier. I hold a current Temple recommend so there has been acceptance from the Stake Presidence and the Bishopric. I believe that change is brought on by people inside an organization rather than outside. If you want more than that I can go on for hours.... I am going to check out your blog as well...


8:53 AM  
Blogger texaschick said...

To Darcy, I would love to link to your site so we can continue to comment on each other. YOUR TOTALLY INSPIRE ME WITH HOW BRAVE YOU ARE! I mean, WOW!! It is so hard to be different in our church, different in any way let alone something as fundamental and personal one's sexual identity. I would LOVE to hear more of your story. I am somewhat a lover of storytelling in general, I am a speech/theatre teacher so it comes with the territory. Anyway, nice to meet up with you here in cyber space, love and kisses

9:11 PM  
Anonymous Darcy Schack said...

It would be an honor to have you link your pae to mine, I will do the same if it is alright

3:40 AM  
Anonymous Andy said...

Here's an interesting look at the idea of commitment, the idea sexuality and why there is so much animosity and "position taking" in the comments lately:

A friend of mine said that there is one place that commitment should happen, and that is in the cemetary. The commitment to the grave is final, everlasting, irreversible as far as any of us can know short of faith. There is no room for renegotiating a commitment to the grave. Once done, it is not undoable.

Therefore, I am interested in the idea of agreements rather than commitments in loving human relationships. Agreements are, by nature, amendable based on various factors. Agreements are binding but also negotiable. If the interests or behavior of one or both parties changes the agreement can be revisited.

I believe that people are deeply mysterious beings. Agreements allow people to have stablility while also providing room to change.

Commitments tend to infer a strict, absolutely binding and inflexible pact. Human beings need to develop, grow, and love. The need to grow often requires us to do things differently, take risks, try new things, explore, imagine and invent. This does not mean that the needs of loved ones are not taken very, very seriously and cautiously. Of course, one considers everyone affected when a change is contemplated. But it would be a big mistake to simply say no to any change because it might affect a loved one. Sometimes changing ourselves does cause sadness and hurt in others. Sometimes changing ourselves frees others, inspires others, or helps others. To simply say no to change because change is hard is to remain, on some level, frustrated in ones growth.

Change is, by nature, unstable and chaotic for everyone involved and it can breed fear and insecurity in us. However, openness about change, consideration and kindness about change can lessen these hard feelings. Secrecy and denial, on the other hand, make change more difficult on everyone involved.

The decision to embrace or resist change is the point at which beliefs and dogmas effect our us. No one wants to change unless they have to. Simply put, we can embrace change or resist it. Our beliefs can encourage change in a direction or discourage change in a direction. Whom one listens to and the beliefs about change that one embraces often has to do with inherited culture, religion, family tradition, education and experience.

One thing that also affects one's beliefs about change is their past success or failures in making decisions. Those who have made choices that have turned out badly sometimes start to doubt their ability to trust the direction of their urge toward change. Feeling doubt, they seek the guidence of others. Some will simply seek "pointers" or a listening ear. Those who are more deeply trouble by their direction, will seek a more thorough direction in the form of programs, belief systems, and institutions.

All change requires trust and faith in the process of life. I believe that there are stages of development that all humans go through on their way to full maturity. We are not all at the same place and therefore we need different ideas, structures and beliefs to help get us through. A lot of the discussion on this blog is about which beliefs, ideas or structures are right for GM and which are wrong. The right and wrong dichotomy is probably not at all helpful to GM. Usually those in need of direction find the sharing of experience to be more helpful than advice. Right and wrong discussions tend to be advice giving vehicles.

Sexuality is an area of personal change that is extremely complicated for most human beings. Adolescence, emerging sexuality, questioning sexual orientation, and sexual compatibility between parnters are all very challenging issues. Sexuality is very, very close to the soul of a person, very close to his/her basic sense of himself/herself and therefore often difficult to discuss without strong emotion. This is why so much of art and literature deal with sexual situations and romantic relationships--they are the very basic stuff of our lives.

Some people are able to navigate through sexual changes with little difficulty, others find lots of challenges, confusions and trouble. Like any challenging area, people will seek help at the level they are at. Some want things spelled out in black and white, others just seek a kind ear.

What I think causes so much animosity on this blog and what has infused the topic of sexuality with so much division, dogma and anger is two things: the law and the tyranny of the majority. If there were not issues of discrimination at hand, I think we would have a much calmer discussion of sexuality, more of a live and let live approach with a lot more openness and truth seeking and a lot less assuming, hurt feelings and attacks.

That's my two cents for now. Maybe I should start my own blog on the subject of negotiating growth?

1:42 PM  
Anonymous C. D. said...

Wonderful, wonderful blog, Andy!

12:11 AM  
Anonymous George said...

As Mormons, we are brainwashed in our youth into believing that the Brethen are inspired and would never lead us astray. If you read a lot of Mormon history, though, you realize they are just ordinary men, who quite frequently have led followers astray. They got race relations wrong for most of Mormon history. And their opposition to gay rights and gay marriage today will, in time, look as stupid as their past opposition to civil rights for blacks, and to interracial marriage. I am baffled by the fellow who feels a need to stay committed to the Church. How can you commit to an institution that behaves so immorally (and its hostility to gay people is immoral). Why would you want to endure the psychic tension of being a member of a cult that dislikes gay people. You can't change the thinking of TBMs regarding gay people. Many who post on the FAIR website say that people with gay THOUGHTS ought to be denied temple recommends (even if they've NEVER broken the law of Chastity). The LDS Church is led by Pharisees, who are more concerned with appearabces (no long hair, no facial hair, and white shirts and church lease) that with how kind people are to one another. I wish you well, GM. But I hope you'll open your mindto the possibility that the LDS Church is a crock; there are other churches out there doing a better job of showing the world what Christ-like love really is....

4:24 PM  
Blogger Kris said...

I think anyone that attacks anyone else's religion for any reason is ENTIRELY too selfish and self centered. I think that anyone that attacks anyone else's life choices is far too busy worrying about everyone else could probably use that time a little more wisely. I think people are way too quick to judge others and use this as a way to take the heat off themselves. Take a good look at yourselves before passing judgement on someone else.


12:37 AM  
Anonymous George said...

Kris: Get a life! Wjat in the world is "selfih" about criticizing aspects of religions? Are religions above criticism. Joseph Smith criticized other religions all the time. And many of us who were raised Mormon see problems with the LDS Church's very misguided views on homosexuality. They've hurt many of us. And yes, we'll gladly criticizethe Church's current attitudes on homsexuality, if we think it will help gay Mormons who are (like GM is) searching for answers. If you think there is something wrong about criticizing aspects of the Church, perhaps you've simply accepted thier branwashing,

3:22 PM  
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Anonymous Anonymous said...


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10:58 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I came across this post on a google search and I must say I am very disturbed.

My husband is cheating on me with a man. I am sick inside and crying constantly and if it weren't for my children I'm sure I would have committed suicide by now. I had no idea he had these kinds of feelings, but I didn't like how close he was becoming with a gay friend. I don't think when going into this marriage he ever thought he would do this either. I don't think anyone does. But the hurt it causes is so unbelievably great that I strongly caution anyone wanting to enter a marriage where one spouse has feelings for the same sex. I have personally felt more pain by this than I knew I could ever feel. And I know too many people who have also felt pain. How people can knowingly enter into this kind of relationship is beyond me.

I greatly admire people of the LDS faith who choose to be celibate instead of act on their homosexual feelings. It is a kind of strength I don't know I would have. And I believe those people will be greatly rewarded for that strength.

I have known many wonderful homosexual people in my life and loved them. But what my husband did to me has scarred me. I don't want to be around them anymore. I feel in some small way they each took part in my husband's betrayal. And what's worse, he's being embraced by the gay community for coming out and having struggled with this for so long. He loved me. We made children together. He isn't just attracted to men. He was happy with me. This 'struggle' the gay community claims he has wasn't existent when we got married.

11:37 PM  
Blogger curious99 said...

How do I know if my Mormon husband is gay? I have been married for 20 yrs. He had trouble with sex on our honeymoon. We rarely have sex and when we do I initiate. In fact in the past few years I have had to "help" him get an erection. Often I wake up to jerky movement in the bed. While he has his back to me I swear he is masterbating. A few years ago when I returned after a month long trip with kids to grandma's I accidently walked in on him in the shower and he had shaved all his pubic hair. I was shocked and asked what/why did you do that? He responded by saying he "just wanted to know what it felt like".
I have never been able to get on his phone. It has been locked always-from day one. His computer is the same. He has stayed at work very late hours (often till midnight). He owns his own business so I never suspected anything. He was recently a Bishop but asked to be released blaming it on our marital discord. WE do have marital discord. He keeps me in the dark and has controlled all the finances and has recently lost all of our money. I have been an angry wife about this (because I had not idea it was going on until it was all gone) and the continued lack of any intimacy/sex. HE can't even cuddle. Says it makes him to hot to sleep. I workout, I am thin and other men consider me attractive.
Finally, he has recently filed for divorce. I guess it was then that I looked into the finances and realized he was taking out $7,000-10,000 a month out of our accounts in cash. I cannot find where the money went except that it is gone.
He blames me for the no sex and marital discord. Says that I am always angry so he could not tell me his business was losing money. Mentions that my anger has kept him from desiring me. He even avoids going to bed at the same time as me. But I did not have this anger when I got married. Rather it came slowly and in the beginning due mostly to his lack of physical attention. He cannot love imtimately and never has. He cannot even French kiss. It is just a little peck and then quick sex. AM I crazy? Is he gay or is there something wrong with me?

We do have 4 kids. Two have a 6 yr gap due to no sex. Is he GAY? As a Mormon can he face this or will we just get a divorce and he will marry another woman?

9:55 AM  
Blogger fantasticdreambird said...

Curious99, your husband is homosexual. It is what is it. I'm in the same situation :(

1:48 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am a convert, married to a non-convert. So there, got that out of the way. We've been married for 23 years. Engaged for 2 years prior. We haven't had sex in over 8 years. He gives one excuse after another. forget it, its way to ugly to tell. I do want to say. I don't think Our Heavenly Father Judges nor Holds One's sexuality as a cause or reason for Your Place in the Heavens. We are all held accountable for our own actions as humans. Either way, if you go out on your partner then you have committed adultery. Plain and simple. We are all his Children, Gay, Black, White, Brown, Jew, Baptist, American or Arabic. You really think he Our Heavenly Father would be so petty? All I know is I am lonely, mad and depressed because he can not admit to himself much less to anyone else. We are all frayed. We have an opportunity of free will and what we do with that free will, will be OUR DESTINY. I'm just so Sad. Bless your Hearts, God will.

12:52 AM  

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