Monday, March 06, 2006

Of course my landlord would know I'm gay.

Housing update: I found a place to live! Yippee! Aaaannd ... they even know I’m gay. I went to this place for the first time last Sunday. I liked what I saw, but only the girl selling her lease was home. I asked if I could return when the two guy roommates were home. She said sure. I returned the next day met the housemates. They seemed very nice/chill, so the next day I emailed her and told her I wanted to buy her lease. She arranged a time for me to come by and pay a deposit and sign the documents.

The next day I went back to finalize the details, and we got to talking. Boy did we talk. We spent nearly three hours discussing everything from tennis to marriage and children. At the point when marriage came up, I mentioned that I didn’t think I’d ever have a wife and kids. She asked why not, and I told her, “I’m gay.”

Her response: “Yeah, I thought so.”

DAMN IT!!! Why is everyone able to tell? I swear I’m not that flaming. Then again, maybe I just don’t recognize all my homo traits. Oh well. In any case, she said she had already told the two guys living there that I am probably gay. They were skeptical (which made me happy to hear), but in the end they said they wouldn’t mind either way. I’m very happy to hear that.

The girl told me she has a lot of gay friends and she could "just tell." She said I’m an excellent communicator (which, again, made me happy – I’m such a sucker for flattery), and she said that I was too concerned about having good roommates to be straight. She’s probably right. It was a big deal for me – so big that I wouldn’t make a decision on the apartment until I had met the guys. Yeah, I guess that’s rather queer of me.

Second random, funny story ...

I went to church today, and I noticed this very attractive guy in the congregation. Of course, I assumed he was straight. But then after church, I was sitting on a pew by myself, and this same good-looking guy gets up from his seat in the back of the room and comes and asks if he can sit next to me. “Wow!” I’m thinking. “I am pretty hot stuff!”

We get to chatting, and he is really friendly and successful, etc. I’m really feeling good about myself – mainly that I got the hottest guy in the congregation to come talk to me. Then at the end of our conversation, the real motive comes out.

He says, “Well, it was great meeting you. I’m on the friendship committee, and we like to make all new move-ins feel at home, so let us know if we can help you out with anything.”

That’s right – this guy was only talking to me because it’s his JOB to talk to me! Ha!! That was a humbling experience. Just when you think you’re pretty hot, you meet someone from the “friendship committee.”

Switching gears one more time ...

On my last post, someone said, “Guys won't date you for very long unless you have sex. That's the way it is. It's a fantasy to believe you can be a virgin and have a relationship.”

Is that true? I recognize that I won’t be able to go years in a relationship without sex (and I don’t think I’d want that anyway), but I know I don’t want to jump in sex with only a small hope of developing a meaningful relationship with a guy. I just don’t know many good relationships that are based on sex, and I personally am looking for more than sex. If the choice is A) have sex after two or three dates with a guy or B) live a celibate lifestyle, then I choose celibacy.

In my perfect world, I’d be able to go three, four, six, even ten months in a relationship with a guy without sex. If I were straight, I’d go at least a year or two before getting married and having sex, so I don’t see why I should compromise my values just because I’m gay. (Side note: for the non-Mormons out there, Mormons don’t believe in pre-marital sex.) If it’s impossible for me to have a loving, healthy relationship before having sex, then I don’t think I’ll be having sex or relationships any time soon.


Blogger Dave Walter said...

Sex is a complicated issue. The guy who left the quote on your blog is on target, in general. If you find another guy who believes what you do about sex, then you'll all set. Finding that guy might not be the easiest thing.

But, as I said, sex is complicated. I'll go into more detail a little later on my blog.

3:56 AM  
Anonymous Foxx said...

On my last post, someone said, “Guys won't date you for very long unless you have sex. That's the way it is. It's a fantasy to believe you can be a virgin and have a relationship.”

Is that true?

I don't think that it has to be true. I think it's pretty standard, as far as averages go, but what do I know? I've only been on a couple far.

But I think that if it's not something you want, you don't have to have it. You can make a relationship however you like it. If you are honest and upfront about your values, you will either be respected for them or you will be rejected because of them. You can't choose what the other guy's reaction is going to be. But if you hold onto your "no premarital sex" morals, do you really want to be with someone who would A) make you throw those morals away or B) throw you away because he can't have his way with you?

I say no; I'm of a similar mind. If someone really cares about you - who you are deep down - they will respect your morals, and he will enjoy you for you until you are ready to take the step, no matter how long it takes. Communication is the key to making the relationship satisfactorily for both parties.

I know that's what I would do, and it's what I want.

7:18 AM  
Blogger Silus Grok said...

I have to say that I'm guessing that the poster is pretty spot-on... sex is an important part of modern courting... but there are people out there (like me) for whom it's not a part of the dating process.

I love dating... I love that I get to see the world through another person's eyes for a couple of hours... that I get to pour myself into someone else. I'm pretty self-centered, and dating is a wonderful chance for me to _connect_. And, of course, I love the cuddling, and the laughing ... all of it.

And I have to WHOLLY agree with Foxx on the communications thing... it's _essential_. And, strangely enough, it's the sexiest part of dating (for me, at least).


And congrats on the new place!

We want pix!

8:20 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Me again. I stirred the pot... but it's good to ask hard questions. Remaining a virgin until marriage is a great value, but does it apply? A gay marriage is invalid, so having sex will still be a sin. Correct me, but are you guys trying to follow the "Mormon" script, except substituting a man for a woman? Van

8:44 AM  
Blogger David said...

I think it will depend on WHY you don't want to have sex. If it is because the Mormon church teaches that you shouldn't have sex before you're married....well, you can't get married and they don't sanction gay relationships anyway.

I'd like to better understand your logic. It seems that there are a number of things that are conflicting in this situation. It may be necessary to sort through your beliefs, to find out why you believe certain things and to what end do those beliefs take you.

11:27 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dear Gay Mormon: You say that Mormons don't believe in premarital sex. Are you talking about the values people CLAIM t uphold, or those they live by? Polls inmdicate most Mormons engage in premarital sex, even if they may hypocritically claim they do not believe in the practice. And this isn't new. Birth records make it lear that many Mormons, for manmy years, have married while already pregnant. But the choices are not simply sex after two or three dates or celibac. For me, I like to wait 4 or 5 dates--if you and the person don't hit it off well enough to have a third or fourth date, you're not too emotionslly inversted. But you will figure out what you[re comfortable with. You also have to understand whast signls you are sending out, and how they are understood. If you tried to kiss someone and he pushed you away, you might not care whether he did it because (a) h thought kissing is "durty" or (b) he just wasn't int you; you'd probably feel rejected and prefer to move onto someone else. Now, think about that fellow you kissed. You were aroused. He brushed his hand across your crotch, you said, and you moved his hand away. If that happens on tghe first date, he may feel, "OK, I'm moving too fast for this guy. But if you move his hand away on EVERY date (even if it's because you think sex is "dirty" or sinnful or not approved of byGod), he will feel you are rejecting him, and rejecting his desire for intimacy. And he may choose to move on to someone who wants to be closer to him. That's just natural. You can have any degree of sexual contact you desire. Not ever guy is always going to want to hav sed with every person he kisses (whether gay or straight). But if your policy is ALWAYS--you can kiss me, but I don't go any farther, well, yeah; of copurse you're going to push away most guys. They'll feel you're too cold and rejecting, or have too big ogf a hangup over sex to deal with. You are finaly, in your mid 20s, realizing it is nice to kiss. Guys you date will have known this for 10 years or so. They may not expect sex on the first date or second date opr third date--but if you offer no hop of their ever having sex, just lots of frustration, they will be right to move on. You are not too in touch with your feelings yet. When you're kissing that guy and you've got an erection, you DO want sex; that is what that erection means. You can repress it, or deny it. Andf it's fine to hold off or a wjile, to give each other time to get to know each other. But if your goal is to mke out but never have sex--and always leave you and your partner in a state of frustration--partners eill probably avoid you. And wisely. You have to hav the courage, sooner or later, to try out in life the sorts of things you fantasize aboutwhen you masturbare. wn your desires. Asdmit you have the desires you clearly do.

1:17 PM  
Blogger DCTwistedLife said...

Well, about your whole landlord thing... I laughed. I think its cute that she had an idea. With most gay guys, once you talk to them a bit you can figure it out. For one, you probably dont radiate *complete asshole* like straight guys tend to do. (HAHA, sorry, just my thoughts). Gay guys tend to be really comfortable around girls, no matter what. Thats another sign. Anyways, its good that she hinted to ur future roomies and that they are cool with it. Now you dont really have to worry about holding back etc.

As far as what ppl have said about dating and sex with a guy. My personal opinion is... the person you will want to be with will wait. It may take longer to find him... but I believe he is out there.

"anonymous'" post was interesting. First let me say that 'anonymous' should work on his spelling. I dont think u should get around if you dont want to. On the ohter hand, he is probably right that if you do want a significant other, you will have to (and probably want to) put out (at least a But of course you must reconcile YOUR beliefs. Realize that YOUR beliefs aren't and dont HAVE to be what the church says.... I dont know if what he says about most mormons having pre-marital sex is true... nevertheless, it is an interesting and frankly surprising statistic. Doesnt really apply for you at this point because guys cant really marry each other...(but I digress).

I say no; I'm of a similar mind. If someone really cares about you - who you are deep down - they will respect your morals, and he will enjoy you for you until you are ready to take the step, no matter how long it takes. Communication is the key to making the relationship satisfactorily for both parties.

I agree... 95 percent. At some point you sort of have to take the plunge. Easier said than done, and if I were talking about me, I would say the exact same thing. But, since I am psychoanalyzing, I get to use my My point is, sure you can find a guy who will wait. But how long are you going to MAKE him wait? How long are you going to put off this "decision" that you will have to maek at some point, and really its seems like that what you dont want to do, is make that decision. Trust me, I dont either, its a very...scary?...prospect. But then supposedly there are plenty of great things to go along with it. I think you should take time to really think about what YOUR values are, what you believe to be right for you. You'll figure it out.

4:56 PM  
Blogger DCTwistedLife said...

Oops. GM, somehow I highlighted foxx's comment and commented on that. lol... well. Uhh...lets pretend like you said it. That would still be my advice. :)

5:00 PM  
Blogger -L- said...

Polls inmdicate most Mormons engage in premarital sex, even if they may hypocritically claim they do not believe in the practice.

Really? Sorry for being skeptical, but could you provide a link or two to the statistics you've mentioned? As DC said, "it is an interesting and frankly surprising statistic," but so is "my penis is 18 inches long." [Sorry, GM, just couldn't resist. Delete this comparison if it's too over the top.]

I agree with those giving the advice to wait if that's what you are most comfortable with. While you may not be looking to the Mormon church for guidance, the idea of being sure sex follows an emotional commitment seems like a good one from a secular point of view as well.

1:06 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

One person expressed skepticism about the fact that surveys show that the majority of Mormons engage in pre-marital sex. In the time it took for that person to write a comment expressng skepticism, that person could have done an Internet search on pre-marital sex and Mormonism. If your goal is to learn, try doing that before you voice skepticism. There have been various surveys all indicating the same thing. The Salt Lake Tribune ran an article August 9, 1991, saying, "Of LDS Women, 58% Admit Premarital Sex." Perhps more significantly, FAIR--which is as true-blue-Mormon an organization as you can get--presented Dr. Tim Heaton at the 2002 FAI conference, and printed his remarks from the conference on their website ( In his talk, he conceded that "nationally, in three different surveys, 80% of the population has pre-marital sex by the time they turn twenty. For LDS people the numbers range from 50 to 60 percent. So, that's well below the national rate but much higher than many people would like them to be." Heaton is an expert chosen by an extremelyconservative, traditiionlist Mormon organization, and even HE admits that polls show that more than half of Mormons have had pre-marital sex by the time they turn 20.

12:10 AM  
Blogger -L- said...

Pardon me for daring to ask for a source from the anonymous poster who can't spell. Clearly you should have been allowed to throw about generalizations and epithets such as hypocrit without anyone questioning you.

But if you consider the two sources you sent to be adequate, you ought to think again. Same goes for the 47 other anti-mormon web sites topping the google results that quote the same data over and over. The FAIR site says, if you actually read it, "Now my friend Bruce Chadwick does statistics ... and his numbers are a lot lower than mine..." So, what, you automatically accept the most sensational numbers that support your point? Yeah, okay. It doesn't say anything about methodologies, participation bias, selection bias, follow up bias, study design, survey wording... you get my point. It could be a completely true statistic, I don't know, and I'm sure the rate is probably higher than I thought it was prior to your post. But questioning statistics is not rude, it's a damn good idea.

There are lies, damn lies, and statistics.

1:21 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You are naive to think you can abstain from sex long-term unless you have some sort of strong religous or other moral conviction.

1:46 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

So, I'm not yet ready to openly admit to the swath of feelings that are part of my sexuality, I'll post anonymously. A lot to read and think about.

Sex is complicated. Very complicated. I think that's part of what the Gay Community is all about, men getting their hormone/endorphin fix. I think that's what's helped me to make the life choices I _have_ made this far.

I think if you're decided to have sex, that's one thing, but I think you should be very careful, because ANY STD is not something to risk because you feel like getting laid. Health should be worth so much more than that.

I guess I would say that if you're decided to have homose*ual intercourse, just be careful. The last thing you want is a case of gonhorrea in your esophagus.

-- Quiet Mormon (QM)

1:42 AM  
Blogger -L- said...

Quiet Mormon, you should get a blog and login with a consistent identity--lots of us are staying anonymous that way. Post some of your thoughts and questions. I know I'm interested to hear more about you.

As for gonorrhea in the throat, take it from one who has seen it in the clinic, it ain't a pretty sight. I'm totally going to be one of those dads who tries to get my kids to not have sex (I know, Dave Walter, you don't approve) by giving them a huge old box of condoms and saying, "Don't use these but don't not use them either!!!"

6:57 PM  

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